Chad Perrin wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 05, 2006 at 09:26:58PM -0400, Khepri wrote:
>> John Pugh wrote:
>>
>> "Given UNIX’s popularity for server workloads, Linux is a full
>> participant in this marketplace. Linux has a following among UNIX
>> aficionados and within the server community."
>>
>> Am I the only one scratching my head on this one?
>
> Maybe. It makes sense to me.
It's been a couple of days and now that I read it again it doesn't seem
as foreign (if that's the word)
I guess it because at this point I tend to see Unix and Linux and two
different and separate things...so it kinda threw me when he equates
Unix and Linux
>> "In the past, there have been desktop innovations from small companies
>> that outshone the best on Windows. A notable example was the Netscape
>> Navigator web browser."
>>
>> Why use the failed Netscape project as an example instead of the
>> successful Mozilla Project? I know he said 'in the past', but the
>> Mozilla Suite goes back far enough I would think..it's still here,
>> Netscape threw in the towel?
<snip>
> What he's saying, I think, is that Microsoft was the clear
> commercial winner, but now that there's a noncommercial (free/open
> source) challenge that isn't susceptible to the same pressures as past
> competitor's in Microsoft's markets, Novell is positioning itself to
> provide corporate support and to profit by that.
Ah, I see...profitiblity through supporting an open source solution
rather than creating and marketing the open source solution....a fine
line isn't it?....Creating a distro from scratch and maketing it and
supporting it, even coding for it...doesn't seem all that different
other than the "open sourceness" of it in relation to what Netscape was
trying to achieve...
> The impression I get
> is of a statement that companies like Novell and the growing corpus of
> free/open source software can enjoy a symbiotic, mutually beneficial
> relationship.
True. Isn't that the model IBM is using or is it a new development in
the community at large and Novell has simply not stated anything to that
effect to this date...(I'm thinking of the contributing and supporting
of code to different projects)
> Now, that might all be a bunch of marketing hype, but it sounds a lot
> better than what credit you seem willing to grant.
True...the Lucent background turned me off a bit....disappointment I
guess that here's this great and up-coming company supporting Linux and
they chose him to bring in...OTOH I really don't know anything about the
guy!....Kinda of a guilt by association thing....
> He's pretty much
> saying the right things in the right places, with just a touch of
> obvious bias that's pretty much inescapably expected in a corporate CTO.
>
>
>> Maybe take off the Unix glasses and just look at Linux from a GNU
>> perspective...
>
> Why would he do that? He's an Open Source business man, not a Free
> Software businessman.
I was thinking of Unix as being a closed source old hat
thing...approaching relic status as Linux advances....and it seems that
all the new and exciting development is going on within the FOSS
community and he should pay more attention to what is going on there
than what Unix has done in the past...
It seems highly unlikely that the M$ killer desktop app that everyone is
looking for is going to come from that sector and not Unix. So I said
that in light of the company being able to recognize and identify where
the latest and greatest software is emerging and to jump in early in
support of it with the aim of including it in the commercial support
version of their product....keeping the edge.
I swear that's all M$ has been doing from the beginning. Taking others
ideas and making them their own...in a closed source manner of course...
> Granted, the mission statements and the like of
> the FSF sound great to me, up to a point, but to someone like the CTO of
> Novell (or of Red Hat, for that matter, or Mandriva, or . . .) it
> probably sounds more like fruity hippie crap that takes a good idea like
> open source software development and runs with it.
LOL....you read that article eh?....The ponytail and sandals story?...
Good point...:)
> . . . or maybe I'm reading too much into what you said. Maybe you're
> just using "GNU perspective" for the handy pun, and pointing out that
> the guy needs to settle into a new paradigm just a little more
> comfortably.
Something like that...Like I said it was his first post...and it seemed
like he was trying for acceptance by saying all the right things as you
point out. It was just so damn obvious that that was what he was doing...
I suppose every new captain of a ship faces that with the old crew,
especially when he's brought in from outside....
I'm just curious as to why they didn't promote from within (because of
the acceptance factor) and just hope that there is something special
about this guy that will justify that action in the end...
Apprehension I guess you'd call it...because I've never paid much
attention to what Novell was doing, and when John Pugh joined the list I
started to look at it and liked what I saw...a bright future with a
distro that seemed to be doing all the right things....exciting! Then he
curveball comes and there's a new pitcher on the team...and the team he
came from, not that good (Lucent of late)....:)
> If that's the case, I think I agree, but then I think the
> entire Novell enterprise comes off like the little brother that
> desperately wants to fit in with the older kids in the already
> established FLOSS social circles, so I'm not terribly surprised.
There you go, that was a great analogy that somewhat expresses what I
was picking up on from him in the article! Hmmm, you think it may be the
whole company though?....hmmmmm
Well,if he's projecting that coming in...and you suspect the company
already has that stigma....we can expect that the stgma will not
change....(assuming we're correct on that)
> He's
> got something like Linux Newbie Syndrome, perhaps -- all the enthusiasm
> and good intentions without the mature understanding of what he's really
> sunk his teeth into, yet. It'll come, as long as we give him the time
> and help the Linux Newbie when he needs it, how he can best be helped,
> by showing him how to help himself.
The Way of Linux...sounds like a book.
> In other words, I think we should be saying "Welcome to the club!" and
> overlooking the occasional bit of clumsiness, keeping a seat warm,
> rather than reacting like he's some kind of poseur trying to infiltrate
> our secret society.
Not so much infiltrate it, but .....ruin it? Nah, to strong of a
word....degrade it, it being the Novell distro...
I think you're right though.....go with the benefit of the doubt....but
I'll be watching!!! Muahahahahahaaha.... (like I'm a anybody LOL)
> Hm. I think I strayed from the main point. I'm not sure whether I ever
> got where I was originally going. Hopefully I said something useful in
> there.
Certainly! Thanks!
Chris in DC
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